Jisho

×
B09ea234c0fca7a2a95e686a09e0bc2f
8 Replies ・ Started by VoQZ at 2020-05-24 17:44:41 UTC ・ Last reply by lazarljubenovic at 2025-03-17 19:55:52 UTC
This is a discussion about 全席

"All places” definition should be added

Title says it

886fb960ff89c60c3359f8cd51628333
ignatius_ra at 2020-05-25 23:11:55 UTC

Have you found any examples of where it means 'all places', and not just 'all seats'?
I haven't found any after a brief search
https://ejje.weblio.jp/sentence/content/%E5%85%A8%E5%B8%AD
https://eow.alc.co.jp/search?q=%e5%85%a8%e5%b8%ad

4895babd94e2cdbcb20a74204b37c32d
lazarljubenovic at 2024-12-04 18:37:36 UTC

"places" or no, it should definitely be "seats". Not sure about "tickets".

F99b5f53127086c4264095d5599894cf
Sombrero1 at 2024-12-05 15:47:01 UTC

This doesn't seem to even be a word in itself. None of my dictionaries have an entry for it. Seems to be used in compounds only. So I think a translation would be rather difficult here

402b5bbdf9e81ebf89d3c1b3613c18df
salix at 2024-12-09 16:56:55 UTC

Indeed, same here. And I really like dictionaries so I have lots.

4895babd94e2cdbcb20a74204b37c32d
lazarljubenovic at 2025-03-02 15:48:06 UTC

I don't see in a physical dictionary either.

But I found it in Sou Matome N3 Kanji book. In the lesson for Week 2 Day 2, there's a picture with a woman eating in a restaurant, and a sign behind her reads "当店は全席禁煙となっております。" Since 禁煙 is a compound, and 席禁煙 doesn't exist either, the only way to understand 全席禁煙 is to break it down as 全席 + 禁煙.

So the entry can probably stay, but there's no evidence as of now that it can ever mean "all tickets". It seems like the definition can only be "all seats (in e.g. a restaurant, bus)" and nothing else (as expected).

4895babd94e2cdbcb20a74204b37c32d
lazarljubenovic at 2025-03-02 15:51:25 UTC

And it's translated as "all seats" when 全席 appears in the list on the same page, but the English in the book is... not very good. Still, it's hard to imagine why this would be "all tickets". I'm actually willing to bet this dictionary entry comes from someone mistyping/misremembering the definition from Sou Matome itself, given that a few in-book days before, it was all about tickets and seats in the public transport.

402b5bbdf9e81ebf89d3c1b3613c18df
salix at 2025-03-02 21:33:38 UTC

Of course 全 席 appears in many places, but to really deserve a dictionary entry it would need to have a distinct meaning on its own. Your example shows it inside of a compound that can easily be broken down as 全 + 席 + 禁煙.

全 already has an entry as prefix and 席 is a regular noun after all. In general there shouldn't be a need to create an entry for everything with 全 in front of it, even if it can be used somehow.

4895babd94e2cdbcb20a74204b37c32d
lazarljubenovic at 2025-03-17 19:55:52 UTC

Oh, I agree with that. But I'm used to JMDict throwing everything in the database. Not sure about their policies about what enters the dictionary and what is a on-the-fly compound. How often does it have to be used to become a word? Which body needs to use it at least once?

I was mostly trying to see where the definition "all tickets" could've come from. Unless I'm missing something, the JMDict entry doesn't have the "History" section at all (like some). I don't know what that means. Was it there from the start? Was creation date not recorded at some point? Am I missing some privileges?

to reply.